Dialogue Session: Dr. James Lovelock Meets Young People
Dr. James Lovelock
Following the official announcement on September 30, 2000, Dr. Lovelock was in Japan to accept the Goi Peace Award in person, and was our guest at a panel discussion with young people organized by the Goi Peace Foundation on November 26, 2000 at the Tokyo American Club. Following is an excerpt from the dialogue.
MC: Dr. Lovelock, could you first give us a brief explanation of your Gaia Theory in a way we ordinary people can understand?
Dr. Lovelock: I would be delighted to do so. Gaia is the name the ancient peoples of Greece gave to the Earth. They worshiped Gaia as a Goddess and saw her as both a nurturing provider of food and fair weather but also as a stern and ruthless enforcer of her laws. A great English writer, William Golding, suggested that I call my theory of the Earth Gaia in memory of this Goddess.
Gaia theory sees the Earth as a planet on which the abundant life forms and the material environment they inhabit have evolved tightly coupled together. From this union Gaia emerged as a powerful entity able to keep the climate and the composition of the air, the soil and the oceans comfortable for living things. Gaia has existed for nearly 4 billion years and is a third as old as the universe.
My first glimpse of Gaia was 35 years ago when I was asked by the American space agency, NASA to help them in their search to find life on Mars. My suggestion was to look at the whole planet for signs of life not just a single place on the surface. We analyzed the composition of the atmospheres of Mars and Venus and found that they were filled with carbon dioxide and that only traces of other gases like oxygen and nitrogen were present. This evidence told me that there was no life on either of these planets. Their atmospheres were close to the lifeless state of equilibrium. By contrast the air of our living Earth is far from the chemical equilibrium state. It is almost a combustible mixture. I began to wonder how is it that the air we breathe is so unstable in a chemical way yet stays constant for millions of years.
Then it occurred to me in flash of inspiration that life at the surface, which makes the gases of the atmosphere, was regulating the production so as to keep the composition constant. More than this the air moves rapidly around the world and therefore the whole of life is involved in this regulation. Then astronomers told me that the Sun has warmed by 25% since life began and in spite of this the climate has kept much the same as it has been in recent times. Now I began to see that our planet keeps its climate and chemical composition constant throughout time and always at a state comfortable for life. Gaia as a hypothesis had emerged in my mind.
But when I proposed the idea of a self-regulating Earth to my scientific colleagues few of them approved. Most of them believed that living things simply adapt to their environment and do not change it or regulate it. Gradually during the past thirty years evidence has grown to show that there are regulating systems that keep the Earth’s climate and composition constant and favorable for life. Gaia theory is now accepted by most main stream scientists calling it Earth System Science.
Gaia is more than a part of science, it helps us to understand that we live on the most beautiful of planets. It shows us something that is in certain ways alive and worthy of our respect. Gaia is something to love and take care of but also something to fear if we fail in our duty to her. Think of Gaia as the name of the Earth, a name that we have always called her and which makes her a personal presence for us all.
Neptune: I have first hand experience with Chernobyl. What is your view of nuclear power and accidents like Chernobyl, and how do they effect the Gaia Theory?
Dr. Lovelock: Thank you for your hard question. My view on the accidents like that of Chernobyl is that they are very much human things. They are not really part of the great earth system I have been talking about. I actually believe that it is a great pity that we have not made much use of nuclear power. I know it is dangerous and accidents can happen, and they are bad. But I think the consequences of continuing to add green house gasses to the atmosphere may in this coming century face us with problems far more serious than that of nuclear power.
Marco: You mentioned that the Sun’s temperature has increased by 25%. What is the capacity of Gaia to absorb changes within the environment?
Dr. L: We don’t know the full answer to that question yet. Not a great deal of measurements that would let us know the range of toleration of the system have been made. We can only make guesses and from the experience of past history. Events like planetesimal impacts such as the one that took place 65 million years ago is thought to have led to demises of the dinosaurs and great lizards. The climate profoundly changed after that event and temperatures rose around the earth as much as ten degrees Celsius. But we survived, and in some ways we wouldn’t be here have there not been that great accident. It looks as if the system is very resilient because there seems to have been as many as thirty such planetesimal impacts, but life has continued on in spite of them. However it does look as if the warm up of the sun, will go on inexorably and faster as the time goes on. Gaia has lived four billion years, and from what we imagine would be the sun’s rate of warm up, it seems that it only ha about one billion more to go. I like to think that the Gaia is just as old as me roughly–about eighty years old having lived four-fifth of its potential existence.
Maho: Recent problems such as global warming, deforestation, and all the environmental destruction suggest that humankind has lost its balance with nature. Is humanity able to survive in the future?
Dr. L: I think the humans are very tough species and we will undoubtedly survive. However, civilization is fragile. There have been at least 30 civilizations since humans came together and formed them. And there is no reason to suppose that the current civilization has tenure and will exist indefinitely. I hope that it will go a long time obviously, but it wouldn’t be a bad idea to be wise and prepare for some collapse of it and leave a record of all the things we did wrong so that our successors will not make the same mistakes.
Yukitaka: On this earth, we have different kinds of people with different minds. Some people are loving and honest, while others are selfish and dishonest. Can you explain these different hearts of people with your Gaia Theory?
Dr. L: To be honest I can’t. My life would be much easier if I could. It really doesn’t have an awful lot to say about such detailed attribute of any species. The Gaia is mainly about the whole system of life and the way it interacts with the planet. What is important–and it may have a bearing on the question you are asking–is that all changes that occur in the great system Gaia occur from individuals, and not from the whole. For example, if there is mutation in some species that produces one that is going to either seriously damage the environment or make it much better, then that change will propagate and spread out from the individual until it affects the whole system. So what an individual is like will have its consequences. But very fortunately, the bad tends to become extinct and that is why it is a self regulating system operating at a point favorable for life rather than a malign one making life difficult.
Yukitaka: Does your answer mean that lots of responsibility rest on each of us individuals?
Dr. L: You couldn’t have put it better. I think it is one of the most important messages of all that come from Gaia. We tend far too much to seek scapegoats, people to blame for the environmental troubles, whereas it is all us. We determine everything we do and we’ve got to keep that in mind. Thank you.
Takehiro: You said that you got an intuition that the earth is living by focusing on the state of the earth atmosphere. When you say it came to you, how did it come to you? How does an intuition occur to a person?
Dr. L: That is a beautiful question. It is not commonly known, and it is rarely taught in schools that science like art and music is a very intuitive thing. If you ask scientists how they made a discovery, they will tell you it came to me in a flash. And it did. Then they spend at least two years trying to explain it first to themselves and then perhaps ten to forty years trying to explain it to their colleagues. But it comes to you as a flash of intuition and that is the way it happens. Don’t be afraid of that. Don’t think there is anything wrong about it. When it is written up in the textbooks, it would seem that it was all logical, but that is not how it really happens.
Vuyani: When you look back at your life, what are the things you are most proud of or you most regret?
Dr.L: You would imagine that when you reach eighty you would be looking back and thinking that kind of way, but it isn’t quite like that. This is a nice thing to tell you all that you don’t really feel any older. Life still goes on; it’s just as exciting and just as interesting and you hope it will go on for a long time. You live in the present, not the past nor the future, and the more you live in the present, the better I think it is. One thing that make people very worried about the future is the search for security–employment tenure and so on. This is what inversely makes one feel more insecure because life is all preordained and it all goes down to retirement and then the grave. Whereas if you are working independent as I have, and you never know when your next income is coming, you somehow never worry about the future, you worry about now or don’t worry at all. You rejoice in now.
Kim: What would you suggest to the younger generation who wish to find out more about the Gaia Theory, and are perhaps interested in making experiments of their own?
Dr. L: I think that it would be a wonderful thing to do. Do whatever turns you on. For example, walking along the seashore at the home we had in Ireland, I first got turned on looking at the seaweeds wondering what gasses were coming off them, and whether they had anything to do with the big system. Gradually that led to going on a ship and discovering that these gasses were coming from the sea everywhere throughout the world. This was part of it, but I think that anybody can start doing that kind of thing. You don’t have to have a big program to do it. I think it is so important to recognize that science can be done by anyone.
MC: In closing, can we ask you to offer a message to young people?
Dr. L: Your questions made me think and for that I am grateful. The only message I have to pass on to you is that if we are all to live well with the Earth and survive this century, we have to understand that to strive for human rights alone is not enough. We have to understand that we and all living things from bacteria to trees, from amoeba to whales are all part of this great living Earth System. Most important, we have to act personally and not expect others to do our duty. Thank you.